TeamSwift

I'm going to disagree with all of you about the Tornado system. I have one in my Mercury Cougar, and two other guys at work each have one. All three of us have seen a 2-4 mpg increase. I'm not saying that it will be effective in every car on the road today, but as a rule of thumb, they are increasing gas mileage. I have also sold several to other customers and nobody has came back wanting a refund. (we offer a refund if you're not satisfied with the Tornado system)

The horsepower increase, however, is a load of crap. I've not talked to anyone that has noticed a difference.

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Those who dance are considered insane by those who can't hear the music.

There is an interesting article in "Popular Mechanics" September 2005 issue. They tested a variety of gadgets under controlled environments on a dynomometer. The results were all negative, and in some cases, actually reduced horsepower and fuel economy.

As for the devices that lean the mixture, (changing O2 sensor feedback), this is not necessarily desirable when looking for either power or economy. Most ICE's for best overall performance (emissions) shoot for an air fuel ratio of 14.7:1. Leaner than this can reduce horsepower. Slightly richer than this will produce better power and can actually increase fuel economy. However, emissions will also increase, and catalyst life will suffer. Lean conditions can also lead to higher combustion temperatures, pinging, and shorter engine life.

The number one way to increase fuel economy is to reduce speed. Aerodynamic drag increases with the square of velocity, which means the drag does not double when you double your speed, it goes up by a factor of 4. Hit high gear and cruise at a reasonable speed that doesn't lug the engine.

BTW, I average 44 MPG with the Metro.

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Mark

the best fuel saver is a light right foot

...or forgetting where you left the keys!

Theoretically, a better fuel saver is an engine that doesn't use a throttle plate or a constant mixture (between 200:1 at idle, and just leaner than stoich at WOT), and uses a fuel with ~30% better energy density than gasoline, which is a swap I'm in the planning stages on. (Yes, it's a diesel. )

That said, here's another scam: fuel pills. Does anyone REALLY think they work?

And, don't forget about the Military Fuel Catalyst. Over on TDIClub, they actually tested it, I think in gassers, too. Useless.

Plus, there was some magnet system that was going to be dyno tested, but the guy disappeared once they realized they really were going to dyno test it, and he was going to have to eat a shoe (such a bet was made - and knowing TDIClub, we've had actually made him eat it, and gotten video).

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1985 Volkswagen Jetta parts car
1986 Volkswagen Golf | 1.6L NA diesel | 5spd manual | Deep Cosmic Blue (LE5C) | 40.8 MPG
1988 Honda Civic | 1.5L 16v gasser | 4spd slushbox | Primer gray
Geo Metro Diesel Project: [....................] 0% - Engine runs! Researching flywheel adapter

I too have a slight problem with this statement...
i mentioned one to my dad just a while ago and he told me of a scrap hauler he knows that put a small fan into his air intake to test such an idea and his MPG went up considerably (at least considerably for a truck that size)

think about it - if you get 7 or 8 miles to the gallon normally... any increase in your MPG saves a lot of money

Was this in a VERY old engine?

Most modern (last 20 years or so) engines have a method for causing a spiral in the air in the cylinders.

The turbonator/spiralmax/whatever theory does work, as most automotive engines still around nowadays use the principle. That's also why they're scams, because most engines already spiral the air in the most optimum manner for combustion in that engine.

Not saying it's worth paying the money that these companies want, though, even if you do have an engine that could benefit from this, especially when it's supporting a scam.

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1985 Volkswagen Jetta parts car
1986 Volkswagen Golf | 1.6L NA diesel | 5spd manual | Deep Cosmic Blue (LE5C) | 40.8 MPG
1988 Honda Civic | 1.5L 16v gasser | 4spd slushbox | Primer gray
Geo Metro Diesel Project: [....................] 0% - Engine runs! Researching flywheel adapter

well it was a :edit: Scrap hauling turck as i believe i said... so it could probably was an old engine...

my point was the fact that the theory works and can also be improvised...

the fan he put in the air... tube... was from one of the cars he had scrapped

the chevy "vortec" engines use it with a wedge shaped throttle blade. which is exactly why i dont believe this product would work and any car/truck. spin the air before that and the throttle blades would stop it.
i think mythbusters did a show on all the magical fuel saver mods and debunked them all.

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GO FAST TURN LEFT!! IF YOU HAVE TO TURN RIGHT, YOU NEED A ROUND OF WEDGE!!!

here is my sig. karma if you look

i put some off-the-shelf injector cleaner in my nissan once and got an increase of about 3mpg, i figure it saved me about 2.5 gallons over a whole tank, which covered the cost of the injector cleaner. did it clean my injectors? i don't know, that turned out to not be the problem

Does anyone have experience with moth balls in the tank ?

Results found by searching "moth balls"

http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php? ... &view=next

Thank you, I never thought to look.

in a real scientific test you must control all variables. ok?

putting gas into any cheap factory gen tank will cause it to run dry at different points, (look inside next time , see it bouncing , the gas ? inside?)
one must make a beaker flask graduated in CC's. and used as a tank.
GRAVITY FEED not Carb sucking.


The engine must be started at the same point each time
Ambient, temp and barometric pressure.
engine temperature.
same Lot of gas ( no second trips to store for more gas)

Ever notice when you suck a milk shake dry , that each and every time
it sucks air , at a different point?
You must prevent this effect or your experient is just a big waste of time.

using lots of gas helps too, at least 1 gallon.
it must be repeatable ( repeat the test with out the magnet for 5 times)
then make a change and repeat it again.)

The load on the generator must be a pure resistive load.
the Generator core must be started at the exact same temperature.

There is lots more to learn but this opens the can of worms.

the best test will be if you DONT run it dry. but in fact measure the
Ounces per minute consumption ( elimating the Float bowl error and the tank sucking air , problem).

Measurement errors are the bane of good science.

one more , before spouting off your tiny increases of MPG , try first
to discover what your normal variances are , for what ever test you are trying to conduct.
Reporting readings inside the margin of error is silly.

most cars will vary the MPG with every fill up. ( 6 ways at least)
I have a log here, on 3 cars that all vary. ( some are 5 years running)
same trip , same speed 80 miles each day. on cruise control.

You will discover that inorder to get accuracy of mpg you will have to run many tanks full and average them.
or
You could just buy a OBD2 scan tool that reports MPG in real time.
then burn what ever mix, and find out what fuel gives the best MPG in 5th gear on the same road and same "standard temperatures and pressures"

freeze all variables, change one , and take reading.
other then that , its just whistling in the dark.

Well for those that have not tried any fuel economy type things you must be crazy. I am not saying they all work but something has too. I honestly have tried all different types and finally found one the works on my van. You say why get taken by scams?? Well I tried it as I saw the NEWS 12 (North Jersey) footage on one called the Vortex Fuel Saver (no not the metal thing that goes into the air hose) these are magnets and I read on here earlier that magnets do not work but I have to say I did try a fuel magnet in the past and it was one rectangular magnet that went on the fuel line. Saw very little in results.

The One that NEWS 12 used was 8 magnets on the Air 4 on the fuel and 1 on the water hose. I called about it and I figured I would try it too and I am glad I did as I have gone up over 20% on my van. I have got a few other (football moms) to get one and not one of them have said ANYTHING negative about it. they have all seen results but they do not all drive vans. On the website they have a WHOLE BUNCH of info on it.

Anyway check it out. i am not saying you should buy it cause I say it works but look at all the News footage and companies that all got good results. OH BTW News (for you North JErsey people) is supposed to be doing a folow up on their van.

Good luck
Football Mom

If they worked, they'd be on your car already. The manufacturers spend millions of dollars trying to eake out the last possible 1% gain in fuel economy, but in the thirty yers this scam has been around, they've never tried it?

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91 Pontiac Firefly Turbo
10 Suzuki Kizashi


Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms
Should be the name of a convenience store, not a government agency

Peoploids!
Magnets DO work!
So much so that you don't need fuel anymore.
Just ask any Japanese futuristic train engineer.....they have a track over thirty miles long that them thar newfangled trains levitate on.....and move quite fast I hear....all thaks to magnets. Big ones.
But...I think that they need electricity to power them up......this comes from coal fired stations.....
stupid circle.......

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Less IS more.

actually my 1980 grand prix sj with the 301 motor was designed to be a miser. that's the goddamn problem!!!!!!!!!!!

This is slightly off subject; more to do with quality of gas over mpg increase.
I've heard about magnets attracting micro-contaminants from the engine oil and fuel there by keeping them from cycling in the engine. Does anyone have experience using 'earth magnets' or a had better results differing polarity by location? I'm curious about the effects-nervous about build up & "throwing chunks" if I get the magnets too close to the filter(s). Looking for input,.

Has anyone actually installed a Fitch Catalyst? I was considering one but need to know if it's worth it. All I seem to find is testimonies on it.

The Fitch catalyst was tested:

"Indeed, when the Fitch Fuel Catalyst was tested in February 2008 by the Australian motoring organisation, the NRMA, essentially no benefit in either emissions or fuel consumption was found on the two petrol (gasoline) vehicles tested. Supporters of this technology claim that the tests were flawed in some way - either due to incorrect installation, or insufficient "conditioning period" between installing the device and performing the test. While this cannot be disproved, the negative results still represent a significant challenge to the makers of such devices."

What you just read I found on the internet.
In my life, as many of you out there, I have read about MANY gadgets to improve fuel economy. NOT ONE survives from the 50's.
I also met people who have installed some of these items. Including your's truly who merrily injected wood alcohol vapor in his CJ6 Jeep while driving....... to disastrous effect.
All the people who SWORE to me that when they installed a device and realised substantial economy ALSO had modified their ways of driving. They weren't doing jackrabbit starts at red lights, they would maintain a constant speed on the highway, they also took particular attention to their air and oil filters AND they were checking the air pressure in their tires.....Two or three of them started to wash their car regularly.
After a while, the gadgets didn't work.
WHY ? you ask you curious little grasshoper...
Because confident that the gadgets alone were doing a great job, their old habits slowly crept back.
They then realised that the gadgets weren't doing their job anymore......
Thing is: THEY NEVER DID!!!
I had a buddy who installed a rare earth bracelet intended to "orient" the gas molecules when installed around the gas line...another, that stupid alcohol bottle......another dumped moth balls in his tank.....One removed his catalyst...his buddy bent the forks pushing down on the float inside his carburettor, so that fuel would be held in a lesser amount...etc....

Very easy to save fuel. Lighten up on that gas pedal. Drive as if there is a raw egg underneath it.

I'm anxious to bring out Espresso Nero from summer hibernation. Those rear seats are coming out. I never had passengers back there. So....I don't need them.
Sorry for the long answer.
Frittibaldi MacFeathers.

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Less IS more.

Since my last post I decided to try the magnets on my fuel line, gas tank and oil drain plug.

Q: Do magnets improve mpg?

Hypothesis: They attract funky stuff improving mpg & reducing engine wear.

Materials: Free woofer magnet I busted up.

Proceedure: Drove like I always do,.noticed no increase in power. Pulled oil pan, gas tank, plugs, ect and found little metal crumblies.

Repeat: When using an "earth magnet" to collect the micro-bits my woofer magnet missed I realized there could be a third, fourth & fifth run at this.

Conclusive results are: my engine farts crumblies-and needs to take Lipitor while going on a low cholestoral diet.

Sea foamed & found great boost in power, no mpg.
Octane booster in conjuction with regular grade fuel free of corn oil crap produces an inspired little 3 banger which encourages my lead foot & reduces mpg terribly.

I tried these alleged fuel saver plug wires for a few reasons..I liked the thicker 8mm construction..they came with good factory type ends. nice green color and if I just happened to pick up few extra MPG or a livelier engine so be it..I don't think any of the less expensive wires would have been any better. These also have a Limited Lifetime warranty should I need it. They are from a company called, Granatelli Motor Sports and I found them on ebay. They claim to deliver a hotter spark from the coil to the plugs by near "0" ohms resistance wires for up to 15% better mileage. The only thing I noticed since I installed them was a smoother idle. I am planning a 600 mile round trip in March and will calculate my new mileage from what I usually get for this trip to my parents house.
Has anyone else used them?

Here is an excerpt from the ad:

Granatelli's MPG/Plus Performance Ignition Set is an easy way to significantly increase your gas mileage…not a bad idea these days! Also increases horsepower and torque for better engine performance and a more responsive ride. The MPG/Plus Performance Ignition Set features 0-ohm resistance solid stainless steel core wires plus an RFI/EFI Hybrid Protection Ring that prevents stereo noise and allows full coil power to reach the spark plug. The result is full power, a hotter spark, more complete combustion, better fuel efficiency, more power and better overall performance…without replacing the coil! Premium technology throughout: stainless steel inner core for high tensile strength, silver plated copper outer core for high conductivity, EPDM insulation, fiberglass braiding for strength, 500° silicone jacket and boots and heavy-duty stainless steel snap-lock terminals at the spark plug! Meets or exceeds OEM specifications. Limited lifetime warranty.

That translates in MPG City 24 MPG to 33 MPG
and 56 MPG on highway.